... with Otto Penzler on Mystery yesterday and today in the USA and the World (Part 1)
... with Otto Penzler on Mystery yesterday
and today in the
Otto Penzler , (born 1942) is one of the experts not only among the
US-mysteryexperts. He is not only mysteryfan but also acted as publisher,
editor and trader (he owns The Mystery Bookshop, presumably the biggest
Mysterybookshop worldwide which he opened June 13th 1979).
In 1977 he won the Edgar Award (the Oscar of Mystery) of the Mystery
Writers of
During the
The first part of the interview we talked to Otto Penzler on Mystery in
the
Zauberspiegel: You have issued three books on pulps so
far (Crimefighters, Villains, Women). They contain real treasures of
literature. Yet I think there might very well be more. Will you be issuing more
books? And for the German readers: Are there German publishers interested in
Pulp Fiction already?
Otto Penzler: There are many
more pulp stories, of course, and some wonderful ones, that simply couldn't fit
into these three books, even though they are very obviously large volumes. At
the moment, however, there are no plans for a fourth volume. The third, PULP
FICTION: THE DAMES, has just come out, so we might need to rest for a while.
Surprisingly, I think, because I know many German readers like hard-boiled and
noir crime fiction, no German publisher has decided to acquire rights.
Zauberspiegel: Pulps have been the start for many
exceptional writers and characters in the history of crime-stories. How did the
pulp genre rise and why did it go down again?
Otto Penzler: Soon after WWI,
there was a great change in the educational system in
Zauberspiegel: For us Germans: What were the most
outstanding titles among the pulps? Who were the publishers behind the pulps?
And how big were the differences between the best and the really bad ones?
Otto Penzler: The greatest of
the pulps were in several genres. In science fiction and fantasy, the giant was
WEIRD TALES. Among "hero" pulps, THE SHADOW and THE SPIDER were huge,
as was THE PHANTOM DETECTIVE. Among mystery pulps, the best and most successful
were DIME DETECTIVE, DETECTIVE FICTION WEEKLY, and the greatest of all--by
far--BLACK MASK. The best of them produced wonderful writers still read today;
the worst were so unbelievably bad that it is almost impossible to imagine they
could have been published. But this is true of most things in the world: there
is greatness, a vast sea of mediocrity, and some things so terrible that they
should be arrested.
Zauberspiegel: Lately it seems that like in your
anthologie or in Hard Case Crimes topics in pulp-style are being published
again or being written. Do you think there is a renaissance of pulps resp the
pulp-topics taking place?
Otto Penzler: The pulp style
has never gone away. Mickey Spillane, the most successful mystery writer who
ever lived, bridged the dying days of the pulps with the advent of the new wave
of hard-boiled writers. Like the pulpsters, he didn't waste a lot of words on
descriptions or analyses of what people were thinking or feeling; he filled his
books with movement and action.
Zauberspiegel: What were the rules, standards and
presettings for the authors? How were the characters supposed to be designed?
Otto Penzler: The rules were
simple: Keep the story moving. Everything else was secondary. Good guys were
very good; bad guys were very bad. Readers were never ambivalent about whom
they should root for. The characters were designed to please the readers of the
magazines, mostly young men and blue collar working men. Women rarely wrote for
the pulps and there were rarely important female characters. The women were
generally girls who needed to be saved, or loyal secretaries, wives and
girlfriends of the heroes, though there were plenty of villainous women, too.
And women seldom read the mystery, hero or science fiction pulps; they had
romance pulps, which they bought in enormous quantities.
Zauberspiegel: What is the difference between the
mystery stories in pulps and today?
Otto Penzler: Mystery stories
today have far more carefully created characters, there is greater emphasis on
the style of writing, and less interest in moving the action along briskly.
Today's mysteries, at least the very good ones, are serious novels in which a
crime happens to take place. None of this applied to the pulp era, with the
very rare exception of the few greats who could do it all, like Hammett and
Zauberspiegel: What is the difference between pulps in
the States and the ones in
Otto Penzler: I know nothing
about pulps in
Zauberspiegel: What is the difference between pulps in
the States and the ones in
Otto Penzler: As noted above,
the most significant change in contemporary mystery fiction is a greater
attempt at being realistic. Characters are fully developed, and bad people
commit murders. Today, it mostly seems silly for a vicar or a kindly
grandmother to commit murders. Those books were mostly created for the puzzle,
which has all but vanished from today's detective stories.
Zauberspiegel: How would you describe the development in
mystery/detective stories during the last two or three decades?
Otto Penzler: As noted above,
the most significant change in contemporary mystery fiction is a greater
attempt at being realistic. Characters are fully developed, and bad people
commit murders. Today, it mostly seems silly for a vicar or a kindly
grandmother to commit murders. Those books were mostly created for the puzzle,
which has all but vanished from today's detective stories.
Zauberspiegel: Do blockbusters by authors like Grisham
or Cornwell support or damage the genre of detective stories?
Otto Penzler: The
mega-bestsellers are wonderful for the mystery genre, as publishers have seen
how successful mystery writers can be, so they are always looking for the next
one that can break out, making a big market for new mystery writers. Also, they
sell a lot of books, making a lot of money for publishers, without which they
could not survive.
Zauberspiegel: The characters in present-day
detective/mystery stories often end up as beaming victors no matter how
hopeless the situation may be. In pulps they were rather the survivors, the
ones who hardly made it. What, in your eyes, are the reasons for this?
Otto Penzler: I don't agree
that there was a difference. The pulp detectives may have got beat up, shot and
been accused of committing crimes, but they were heroes who always emerged
victorious. There is little difference between Sam Spade, Philip Marlowe and
Race Williams of the pulps and Spenser, Jack Reacher and Matt Scudder of today.
Zauberspiegel: You recommend authors like Robert Crais,
James Crumley and of course Elmore Leonard all of them are authors that are
on the way to become modern classics. Yet they are (apart from Leonard) not the
really big sellers. Is this your way of expressing who supports the genre and
where there is a dawning of a renewal?
Otto Penzler: Whenever I can,
I support the best writers, as they are my heroes. But I never support someone,
or advocate them, unless I truly admire their work. This is difficult,
sometimes, because I have many writer friends whose work I don't support
because, while it may be excellent, it is not a kind of writing that I admire.
However, you should know that, in
Zauberspiegel: What do you think: What kind of detective,
what kind of villain will be the future of detective stories? To what extent
will thriller and the classical detective stories mix?
Otto Penzler: The detective of
the future will reflect society at large, as he always has, though he often
represents the best that society has to offer, being more honest, more
fearless, more loyal and more competent than most of the people who read of
their adventures. As more and more of society becomes overly accepting of moral
relativism, egotism and banality, I suspect the detectives will become more
that way, too.
Zauberspiegel: What do you think: What kind of
detective, what kind of villain will be the future of detective stories? To
what extent will thriller and the classical detective stories mix?
Otto Penzler: The thriller and
the classic detective story have never mixed and I cannot see that they ever
could. One is primarily a novel of excitement, action and physicality, while
the other is essentially a cerebral exercise.
Zauberspiegel: What is to your mind the ideal
contemporary detective story?
Otto Penzler: No one gets it
right more than Michael Connelly, though Crais rivals him. Both writers have
created memorable characters, write with a beautiful prose style, construct
tight plots with satisfying solutions based on reason and inevitability, rather
than being pulled out of the air. Some of my favorite writers, like Robert B.
Parker and Elmore Leonard, are more interested in characterization and
dialogue, not so much in constructing plots. Crumley's plots are so complex
that I've never known what was going on with just one reading, though he is one
of the few writers I enjoy re-reading because his prose is pure poetry, as is
also true of Thomas H. Cook, John Harvey and Charles McCarry.
